PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to episode 15 of the Light Her Project Podcast.
Real women.
With real talk.
I'm Rachel Strella.
And I'm Vixen Divine.
Thank you so much for tuning in today.
Today's discussion is all about bullying.
This is a very pervasive topic and we're
actually gonna break it into two episodes.
So today we're gonna focus on bullying
children.
And our next episode will feature adult
bullying, which is very much alive and real.
In both episodes, we'll also touch on the
topic of online bullying, which is very
much prevalent today.
So.
Yes.
Let's get started.
We'd like to start our episodes with
personal experiences.
So, you know, talking about bullying in
our childhood from our perspective.
So I can recall a few instances of
bullying growing up.
The first one, I was very young.
I don't know what you call that.
Older than a toddler, but not an
adolescent.
I was probably around three or four.
Okay.
And I lived in this neighborhood where
all these older girls were all hanging
out.
And I was a couple of years younger.
Well, like they would put sand in my
mouth, from the sandbox and they wouldn't
let me leave to go
home until I swallowed it.
I remember coming home and choking because
I had swallowed so much sand and that was
just one of maybe 10 different things they
would do just because they could.
In junior high, I got picked on a lot.
I didn't have a lot of money and so I
didn't have the nicest clothes.
You know, like most people wore Nikes.
They had Jansport backpacks, all that
stuff.
I had like whatever the Walmart brand was.
So I got picked on a lot,
teased a lot.
And one thing I remember in high school, I
was in the Honor Society and every year
they had a Christmas show.
So I was actually supposed to play one of
the teachers.
during that Christmas show.
And I rehearsed my lines and I was ready
to roll.
And the day of the show, I went to the
auditorium for the rehearsal and I was
told that someone else was playing the
role.
Apparently there was a meeting earlier in
the week and because I didn't attend, they replaced me.
No one made me aware of any meeting.
So, obviously I've had a lot of different
experiences throughout childhood.
Okay, I don't have a whole lot, but I have
one in particular.
I had more than one, but this one in
particular really does stand out to me.
I remember I was in elementary school, and
I think I was in about the third grade,
and my parents got called to the school.
And you know, when the parents get called
to the school, you know, you usually, oh,
that's, you did something wrong.
But I couldn't figure out what I did
wrong.
I was like, ugh.
You know, I knew they were coming, but I didn't know
what the meeting was about.
I didn't have anything obvious that I had
done that I'm like, oh crap, I'm in trouble now, you know.
So the parents get to the school, find out
that they want to move me to another
school because basically I was in a
general elementary school, the one that
was closest to my house, but they wanted
to move me to an accelerated elementary
school, which you think is a good thing,
but it really is not.
I mean at the school, you know, you learn
to play an instrument you learned
different languages and so on so forth cause
they just I was just too smart for this school.
They just thought it'd be wasted for me.
So I go to this new school.
It's in the middle of the year mind you so
I'm the new kid, right?
Well, I was bullied but it was by the
teacher. The teacher yelled at me.
She scared me so bad
I literally would skip school.
Like I'd hide in the bathroom.
I would not go to class.
I was so scared of this teacher.
Seriously.
Now I'm this little kid and teacher full
grown up, you know?
And I'm in a new school.
I don't really have any friends because
I'm in a new school.
And I was just this teacher.
I don't remember her name.
She was an Asian woman and the school was
Ben Franklin and she was awful.
She was absolutely awful.
And my parents had never yelled at me like
that before.
I was a good kid, like you said, I was, you
know, on a roll, good, you know, no
problems, but it was awful.
It was absolutely awful.
So my experiences with actually peers was
a lot better than actually teachers.
Hmm.
Yeah.
My parents eventually found out, because I was too
scared to tell anybody.
This is a teacher, right?
Right, right.
So my parents eventually found out and all
that, but it was terrible.
It wasn't.
It was, you know, she's what, three times
my size, at least.
I had a similar situation happen to me in
first grade like that.
So I understand that it's so complex
because when you're a child, you don't
really understand.
You know, why, why you've been treated
this way or how to respond to it.
You feel like you did something wrong.
Right, and it's complicated because as a
kid, then you're always taught to tell the teacher, right?
You know, tell the grown-up, right?
So what do you do when it is the teacher,
when it is the grown-up?
Great question.
No, yeah, I don't think we empower enough
for that but. Well, let's go into some
questions. The first question today is
what would you do if you were the parent of a bully?
Wow, so the way I grew up and you can
probably relate to this Vixen, you get
your butt kicked if you were picking on
other people or bullying and your parents
found out,
you know, so
That was a no brainer growing up, but in my
case, I guess, you know, I think about the
way that bullies get their power and they
make others feel inferior.
So I think my first instinct would be to
find out what is emotionally lacking from
the child that they feel they need to
bully others.
You know, and that's not an easy thing to
figure out because kids, they act out for
a lot of different reasons.
I think being aware of the fact the child
is a bully is a first step.
And I imagine some parents are surprised
or probably even in disbelief when they
discover their child is a bully.
I think it just takes a certain level of
emotional intelligence to navigate that properly.
But I think it would really depend on the
child's personality, you know, and the
type of bullying, how I would handle it.
It's a really complicated thing.
I think you're right in the respect of,
you have to find out, you have to first
acknowledge it because some parents, they
just are in denial.
They do not wanna believe that their child
would ever do that.
Susie says, Janice hit me, she hits me
every day.
Well, Janice would never do that.
Susie would never do that.
She'd never receive such things.
She'd never give such things.
That's the parent talking.
Like my child would never do that.
Or there's the case where the parent says,
well, what did you do?
What made her, what did you do to make her
do that?
That one.
So as a parent though, you have to be
accepting that the possibility is there
before you even investigate.
You won't investigate if you don't even
believe that it could happen.
Because some parents are like that.
They're like, uh-uh.
So once you're past that, once you
actually believe that this is possible, I
feel like you look into it without the kid
knowing it.
You observe.
You become very observant first to see,
start seeing with those eyes now, and then
you see if it's really what's behind it.
I feel like if you don't tell them first,
because if you tell them, then they may
start acting differently.
True, true.
Especially if they are a bully, they'll
know how to manipulate.
Right.
So I feel like that's your first step.
Being observant, understanding, and then
taking the appropriate action.
Like you said, depending on the type of
bullying that's happening.
If it is indeed happening, depending on
the type.
But yeah, the first thing I do is accept
it, the possibility of such, and then
observe it without saying anything so that
their behavior doesn't change.
Right, right, all right.
Well, let's go to another question.
So what's the right thing to teach, you
know, young kids about responding to bullies?
I mean, what would you teach them so that
they aren't bullied, that they're kind,
productive members of society?
Okay, so I got a lot to say about this
one.
What you teach your kids and how you
respond, it depends on the type of
bullying that they're receiving.
If they're receiving physical bullying, I
always say that first, if somebody's
hitting you, you do not.
I don't care, honestly, I really don't
care what the rules are.
You do not take that.
You do not take it, period, end of story.
You will get your, you know, repercussions
later.
But you do not sit there and
let them hit you.
You fight back every single time,
every time.
So after that, if you get past that,
because that's the big thing, you deal
with that, the police, all that physical
stuff later.
But if it's mental bullying, the only way
you have to understand that the only way
that your child can be bullied is if they
let themselves be bullied.
Because I, as a person, say I'm a kid,
and you're a kid in the same class, I can
say anything I want.
Period.
End of story.
But if you don't care, if what my words
say have no power to you, it will make
absolutely no difference to you.
But if you care about what I say, oh my
gosh, she's got on that pink jacket.
I want one too.
She told me I can't have one.
You know, if you care about that, then
it's going to affect you.
So that's the first thing I'm gonna teach.
I'm gonna do my, cause some kids it's
really hard to accept that.
So you really have to start this early.
You really have to let them know that what
other kids say should be taken with a grain of salt.
And how you relay that to your child
depends of course on your child's personality.
Mm-hmm, right.
Well, I feel similar.
I don't think anyone ever knows the right
thing, but I think my approach would be to
ignore the bully, with the exception, of
course, of physical interactions.
But you can't feed into it.
Bullies gain their power when they see
that their tactics are working.
So the more they see it affects you, the
more they're going to do it.
I think.
It's not an easy thing for a child to just
ignore a bully.
But I'd recommend they have to find a way
to separate themselves in their reactions
to the bully as much as possible.
And there is times, there are times when
you have to stand up to a bully, but every
situation is different.
There's something called this very popular
type of bully.
It's called bully victim.
And these are the bullies who were victims
themselves.
So they gain power and
control in their lives by bullying other
people.
It's kind of like a way to retaliate for
the pain they've experienced.
And I think it's really important to be
aware of this type of bullying and know
how to navigate that conversation with a
child.
You know what what's happened to them that
they're acting that way.
I just don't think kids have the emotional
development you know to really fully understand how to
handle bullies and I think that's where
parents really need to be aware of what's
going on with the child and know when
something's off.
I agree that the kids do not have that
understanding as of yet but kids I find
that kids are really good with direction
and given tasks so that's why I feel like
if you start younger like don't wait until
they're being bullied you know if they
have that in their upbringing
if they have the defense mechanism that
you've instilled upon them, then when that
comes up and if that comes up, it may
never come up.
But if that does come up, they'll be like,
oh, okay.
They'll know what to do or at least have
an idea of what to do and when to bring it up to you.
Cause then they're not confused.
They're like, hmm, Sally's doing this
mommy, Sally's doing this.
She's doing kind of what you said, you
know, and then they'll have a conversation with that.
And they'll kind of be armed and
equipped a little bit.
So you really can't wait, I feel like,
until the situation happens.
It's kind of got to be in your
conversation prior to.
Right, yeah.
And it goes back to observing.
Like you said, you really have to know,
you know, what's going on.
So let's go to another question.
So when you, you know, when you're a young
girl, you know, what, what being bullied
by a girl versus being bullied by a boy,
what's the difference there?
I found that the difference there, if
someone was challenging me, whether it was
a boy or a girl, I did react pretty much
the same way.
I never had the mean girl type of
bullying, whereas because you got, I didn't care.
I didn't care if Sally wore whatever she
wore, I don't give a crap.
But...
I was really the type that was, I remember
this boy and I didn't remember that I
hurt him so bad, okay?
But later on, like I had seen him later in
life and he remembered that I knocked him
down a hill.
And when he said it, then I remembered,
but I think you have to treat them the same way.
And I feel like there wasn't really a
difference.
I think, because all the bullying type was
the same for me.
It wasn't, and I know what you mean as far
as like that.
I think of that Mean Girl movie, you know,
how the girls are like all prissy and
separate and like that kind of thing,
whereas the boys are all, like that never happened.
There was no separation like that.
If they were picking on you, they were
picking on you.
You know, they just found a reason,
whatever it was.
So for me, it was all in the same
category.
So I treated everyone that same way.
Yeah.
Yeah, I kind of feel similar.
I mean, you know me, I like to resort to
research.
So, you know, research said that females are
more like you said the mean girl kind of,
they call it relational aggression.
So that's more of like emotional bullying.
And man like they engage in more physical
bullying.
But I mean, you've seen, most of us have
seen the movie Mean Girls, where it's just
the backstabbing, the cliques, you know,
making some, you know, making fun of someone
for how they look.
I can agree that this happened, you know,
to me.
I don't know that I ever really got
bullied by a boy per se.
If I did, I think it was they picked on
me, like when they were in a group
together and they were trying to look
cool, you know, but I don't think I was
ever bullied, you know, or isolated by
a boy, I just, usually the girls were in
packs too.
Like they didn't really come up to you and
just bully you.
You know, it's, but I think that's also
part of like that age group, you know,
they do, you know, you do things together
a lot.
So.
They do, they do.
I just, I found it is one of those things
where when kids got together and they did
have cliques, you know, there was, you
kind of knew who was gonna sit at what lunch table.
Do you know what I mean?
Cause they sat together all the time, you
know, that kind of thing.
So I feel like when kids got together and
the boys now back in my school, boys and
girls did sit together.
Like it wasn't separate.
So if this pack was talking about somebody, all
of them were talking about somebody boy or girl.
Do you know what I mean?
So it wasn't really separate, like that,
like the first time I ever saw even a
whole circle of like girls dancing
together was I was visiting another school.
I was just like that's not a thing.
You dance with a boy, like you don't, all
these girls were dancing together.
I'm like no, but it was a thing.
It was a thing.
So.
We didn't really have that separation in
the environment that I grew up in and I
grew up in inner city schools and we
didn't have that separation.
You know, and we're, I think about it this
way, our perspective is from us as women.
You know, I don't know how men interact or
boys interact, you know, with the bullying
to each other, but I would assume it's
like the research says.
It's probably a lot
more physical aggression.
Yes, yes it is.
And now in my time growing up, physical
aggression and mental aggression were
basically in the same because you know
what, if you were too mental, if you got
on my nerves too much, guess what?
I'm meeting you at the playground at three
after school.
So it's gonna turn into that.
And everybody knows that there's gonna be
a fight at three after school.
So.
And I feel like that was a time when it
was safe to fight.
Like it was a victor and there was a loser
and you moped for a few days or whatever.
And then there was the next fight and then
it was over.
Like that kind of thing.
So it was hashed out, it was over and
that was it.
Yep.
No, I agree.
Things are different now, as we know.
Well, while we're talking about that,
let's talk about how technology has changed bullying.
So
I mean, let's face it, it's changed
basically everything about bullying.
I mean, we can hide behind the screen, a
fake profile and just hurt others.
And I think social media is a breeding
ground for this.
And the way I look at it is we like to
showcase our best selves on social media.
And it's, it's obviously easy for us to
get jealous of others, you know, because
we're always showing our perfect
life right and we compare you know and I
think that can lead to a lot of
self-loathing you know and I think that's
a big part of why younger folks um
engage in this like really negative
behavior online and others just trash
people because they can they troll because
they can you know but the more popular you are
Oftentimes more hate you get, you know, in
the online world.
It's almost the opposite of what it was
like, you know, face-to-face interaction.
Because you're right, they have that
screen to hide behind.
Half the things people say online, they
would not say to your face because when
they get up off the floor, they would see
that's the thing.
They're hiding back there, but you know
what?
Go ahead.
Like, you know I'm a Gen Xer, you gonna
get up off the floor.
And that's what we did.
But...
The things that people think about, they
have too much time to be thinking about these things.
A lot of times the trollers, they are,
they're on social media way too much.
They don't have a lot of time to spend
with their families.
They much rather spend their time online.
Like they're eating, they're eating with
their cell phones.
Like they're literally eating with, like
they can't put it down.
It's very sad actually.
Yeah.
It’s very sad.
So these people, they, it does make for
the perfect environment, I will say that,
the perfect environment to talk bad about
someone.
Rarely do you find someone lifting someone
up because they did such a good job or,
you know, that's about three to one.
Right, right.
Whereas that could also be used for good,
you know, but it is like three to one.
So
I think the person who is trolling online
is just something that they have too much
time on their hands.
And usually that same person, their income
is very low.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, there is a lot of research about
that.
Yeah.
Their income is very low.
That troll, they try to down someone else
because they don't have a lot.
No, it's true.
It's true, very much so.
If there's a lot we could say about the
technology side.
So we'll talk about what we're seeing.
So Anna, who was on the podcast before in
our aging episode, she writes a column for
my company and it's called Hot Take.
And a few weeks ago, she wrote a column
about why teenagers should not be on social media.
So as many of us know, some parents are
suing social media companies in response
to teenagers who committed suicide.
As a result of being on social
media.
So in her column, she formulates a theory
that today's internet has, I'm quoting
her, melded the reality between life and
online content, leading vulnerable
populations like teenagers to take the
branding tactics of social media marketing
and apply them to themselves and their
sense of self.
So she cites research that articulates how
teenagers are
so inundated with social media, but they
now see the world as a foundation upon
which to build content not actually live
in.
So there's this intertwined nature between
self and the internet.
So very interesting stuff.
Vixen, what do you think?
Should teenagers be on social media?
Well, here's the thing, they should be,
but here's the problem with that.
I feel like a lot of parents are not
taking responsibility.
You know, who's paying for that internet?
Who's paying for that cell phone?
Who's paying for that computer?
Who's paying for the tablet, right?
It's usually not the teenager, it's
usually the parent.
So you give them these things and you're
like saying, oh, here you go, do what you want now.
No guidance.
No, half the time they don't even know who
half their friends are.
That's a deal that I had.
I remember you could be on there, but I
had to be your friend.
You couldn't block me.
I had to be able to see all the friends
and anytime that I requested that I wanted to see, you know,
conversations or whatever, I was able to
do that.
And if not, there was problem.
So parents are not involved.
I mean, yes, the social media companies
and the networks and all these, they can
do their best, but they are not you.
They are not there to raise your child.
They are not there.
That content that your child's seeing,
maybe your child shouldn't be seeing.
You know.
That's your responsibility.
As a parent, you cannot blame someone else
for that.
That is all you.
Yeah.
I mean, the algorithms and things like
that, that push content, you know, to be
seen, they know what they're doing.
But I agree with you.
It is, it is the parents responsibility.
And a lot of them, I mean, they give them
these electronic devices and that's their
babysitting tool.
You know, they're not.
Absolutely.
So while we're talking about that, you
know, one thing that we're seeing too, you
know, you can limit content.
Comments on certain posts and things, you
know, you can even filter and censor
certain words so that if that word's used,
you're not going to see it, it's not going to publish.
An example would be Kim Kardashian’s daughter,
North, she has a TikTok and she posts
regularly, but she has all the comments
turned off.
So, you know, this is what the public
assumes to protect her from bullying and
people commenting.
Personally,
I work in social media.
I think turning off comments defeats the
purpose of social media.
However, in this case, when a child is
involved, especially a celebrity, it's a necessary measure.
I don’t think that the comments
should be turned off.
I think because you can't hide from the
world.
If you wanted to hide from the world, then
you probably shouldn't be on social media at all.
Do you know what I mean?
I think it's a time when you can filter
that or you can look with them, you know,
and explain to them what is happening.
I've called it teachable moments because
there are, I agree totally with filtering
words, you know, and then that helps with
the comments and that sort of thing.
They don't need to see that.
But, um, turning them all off.
Because you can't turn off the world when
you're out at a restaurant.
You can't filter what that guy says about
you.
So you need to know how to react to that
guy saying something about you.
Or to you.
Do you know what I mean?
So you can't filter out the world or you
shouldn't
filter out the world, filter out certain
things, you know, but you should be,
again, that parent should be a parent.
And if you don't have time to do that,
then back off their time that they're on there.
Cause like you said, it shouldn't be a
babysitting tool.
And you know what?
There are tons of books to read, tons.
I agree.
I think there's a lot of different
elements to this particular case.
So by the way, I just googled it
North West, that's her name.
She's 10 years old.
You know, I mean, well, we think teenagers
shouldn’t be on social media, I mean, 10 years old,
that's still really young.
So,
I don't know how teachable moments, how
many you can have when you have kids that
are eight, nine, ten on social media.
Like it's still very young, but I agree,
you know, as you get older and they start
to learn their interactions more in
teenagers and that's a little different.
And we're also talking about a celebrity.
So it's like, there's just, it's just a
very different, you know, scenario.
I think it's great that she's on it and
her mom is active in the account.
So that's good.
It gives her that opportunity for that
freedom to still be able to do things like everybody else.
But you have to shelter her a little bit.
Yeah.
I agree with you.
It's different because she's famous.
You know, she's not going to get the
normal amount of comments.
She's probably, she probably would get
like a ton crap load, basically of
comments, all different kinds, you know,
because she's famous.
But, um, for the regular 10 year old, I
definitely think, yeah, my comments
basically for a regular 10 year old, but
I definitely think that the parents and
I'm noticing that actually across the
board that the parents are not as involved
in their upbringing and they're doing this crazy thing.
Are you noticing this too?
Where parents are letting their children
make their own decisions.
Meaning, and I don't mean like what to
wear.
I mean like real decisions.
Yeah, I know what you're saying.
They're making them become adults.
Exactly, exactly.
And then, of course, half the time they're
making the wrong decisions.
But that's what they do because they're
.
You know, they're not, you can, I used to
call it, okay, we're going to practice
adulting today.
That's what I'd say.
And then I'd give them the scenario.
And then I'd see what they choose.
And then we talk about it, if it was the
right choice or the wrong choice.
So we would practice this.
When they were younger as opposed to,
because one day, you know, they make these
decisions on their own, but they are
actually letting them make the actual
decisions on their own without a fully
developed brain, without, oh, this is what
he wants to do.
This is what she wants to do.
This is what they feel like.
What?
No.
They feel this way because they're 10.
That to me is this inexcusable.
I mean, it's poor parenting, it's no
parenting.
You know, and then they're going to blame
somebody else when something messes up.
Let's blame social media then.
So yeah, it's a sad reality.
I'm glad we're bringing this issue to the
forefront.
And, you know, we're going to talk about
this more next week.
We're going to talk about adult
bullying.
But in the meantime, for all the people listening, if
you have anything you want to be talking
about, share it with us, share it on
social media so we can, you know,
incorporate it into the next podcast and
we'd really like to hear from everyone and their experiences.
Maybe an ask Rachel or ask Vixen.
Alright so Vixen is there anything
else you’d like to say about this topic?
I’m just saying, my big thing is parents you need
to be aware.
You need to be aware and be open to the
possibility that your child might not be
an angel.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No, I agree with that.
I agree with that.
I'll mention one thing.
So there was a series on Netflix called
13 Reasons Why.
A lot of people have heard of it.
And the first season was met with so much
positive feedback because it really
brought to light some issues that are
happening.
But then the subsequent season is not so
much a lot of negative critics.
And, you know, the reason being is there
was
there were things that were happening in
that show that people were emulating in schools then.
And yeah, so when it comes to stuff like
that, you've gotta be able to have that
relationship with a child to watch
something like this happen and have them
really understand the impact that this
has.
You can't just say, here, go watch some
show, watch whatever you want, you know?
I mean, it's a really sensitive matter,
so.
Just something I think everyone needs to
be aware of, you know, that this stuff
doesn't replace parenting.
Social media, television, doesn't
replace parenting.
Well, thanks everyone for tuning into the
Light Her Project Podcast.
You can follow the conversation online
with our hashtag.
So in the meantime, keep it real.
Real women.
With Real Talk.
Commitment to Excellence
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