Behind the Screens: Kids, Parents, and the Social Media Dilemma

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Ella Gunnell: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Untamed Social Media. I'm Ella.

Anna Dobbert: And I'm Anna.

Ella Gunnell: And today me and Anna decided we wanted to talk a little bit about kids and social media. Um, so the first part about that, that we really wanted to jump into, um, is just how parents and adults are using their children as like their social media content. Um, and sometimes that's fine, but sometimes we kind of tiptoe along the line of it feeling like a little bit exploitation-y. Um, so what are your thoughts on that, Anna?

Anna Dobbert: Yeah, I feel like it's been coming up a lot more, like, probably post pandemic, you just saw this huge surge of parent and family content that was, like, primarily focused on the kids. And it's fascinating because I feel like in pre pandemic world, it was seen as, like, cutesy, wholesome, never really got too much backlash for it. And I think now the social media world that we live in, where there's so much money behind what you're doing on social media, like substantially more money. People are starting to change their minds on kids being in people's like monetized content a little bit more and being like, that's your child's labor. Like at the end of the day, like they are working and are they going to see any of that money? There's no regulation, like there is with like children in entertainment and movies and TV shows and commercials. There's no kind of regulation of being like, and you have to set aside a certain amount of your TikTok revenue for your kid when they hit 18.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah, I wonder if we're gonna kind of run into issues a few years down the road. Um, there's a show that just came out on Hulu, I haven't seen it yet, but I think it's called Child Stars. But it basically follows, yeah, it follows, like, a bunch of different, like, Disney stars who were famous, like, since they were children and they were, like, child actors. And, like, I think it uncovers, like, it talks about, like, a lot of the stuff that they were, like, exploited and not treated that good, like, their parents maybe weren't that great. And I wonder if we're gonna start, I think we already are seeing it a little bit, but I wonder if we're gonna see more of it down the line of, like, these kids aging and like, starting to speak up for themselves and be like, oh yeah, I was exploited in the same way, but not as a child actor, just for social media.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah, and what kind of, like protection there even can be for that. Like, I feel like it would take a lot of effort and a long time for like, say a law to get put in place where it was like, can't really do that to your kids. Cause it's just in the home. It's on people's personal devices, like it's not really something that we have a precedent for regulatory practices on. It kind of is just up to like the parents and what they're deciding to do in their homes.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah. Such is just the case with a lot of social media stuff happening right now, right? Like, it's all so new, so we don't really have like, laws and regulations around it. Um, but yeah, it is so, it is even more of a gray area, I feel, than like child actors because at least they had like a contract and like they, they had a job, but is literally like your home. These are your parents. And you're just like doing stuff for content. It's so, it's so much trickier. I feel like to regulate.

Anna Dobbert: And then like, the way people get compensated. Like I've seen a lot of parent, um, like vloggers or even like really, really young, like teenage girls, um, making money on the internet by being like, here's my Amazon wishlist and like buy things from my Amazon wishlist. And some of it's for the parents and some of it's for the kids. It can get into really sticky territory of being like, who is buying your 13 year old daughter, a swimsuit and why?

Ella Gunnell: Hmm.

Anna Dobbert: It's an interesting sort of like, yes, you can just straight up make money from like YouTube and TikTok, but then also like, what do you do about brand endorsements when your child like legally can't even work yet.

Like what is, what does that kind of compensation look like?

Ella Gunnell: Yeah, true. And even if you like take out all of that and just like simplify it down to like, we're just getting paid from our views and our followers and our engagements and metrics like that, then what are you willing to do to get that stuff? And I think that sometimes, parents might cross a little bit of a line, do things that might be a little bit questionable in order to, like, basically entice people to click on the video. I think a very prime example of this, without getting too controversial, there was a few months ago, this one creator, I don't remember her handle, but she's basically made a whole account based around her toddler daughter named Wren. Um, and the reason she's getting so blasted for it is it because it seems like she intentionally chooses covers and makes her child say things that could be taken, maybe in an inappropriate way, um, just to like a normal person who's just seeing for the video the first time, like, to me, who, like, I don't, I'm like very, innocent and naive. I'd be like, oh, this is a cute video, right? But then, like, as you're seeing it all together as a whole on her feed, and you're realizing, like, how many saves these videos are getting. Why are they being saved? Like it just, it's like a pattern and then it starts to become like a little bit fishy.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah. Or, and especially with like specifically like very, very young, like baby girls, like toddlers. There also then comes into a question of being like, I understand from a parent perspective, being like, I love my kids so much. My kid's the cutest kid to ever exist. The world needs to see this. Isn't this the cutest thing? But I also sometimes get so confused as being like, how do you not have that really, really fierce, strong parental instinct of like protection of being like, this needs to be, like, locked down. Like, people who get to see this, it needs to be the ones that I allow to see it. Or, like, the people I trust, the community I build. I couldn't ever imagine. Like, it sounds even scary to be internet famous for myself, a grown up. Imagine, fear for like, you, a child that is, like, barely three that's like just coming into the world, being, how do you.

Who can't consent to that action. And then, like, how could you not have that moment? Because I think Wren's mom, either her name is Wren or the kid's name is Wren, I'm really not sure. But, her defense in it was like, or part of it at least, was that she didn't really understand or like, think of it that way. She's like, I don't look at, like, my daughter in that, like, inappropriate way. So, like, I'm not gearing my content towards it. And I'm like, how do you not sort of just have that blinder up to begin with? Especially however many years she's been doing this. It's not like she was new to the scene. And like, didn't realize that some of her content of her baby could be interpreted inappropriately. Like, you've been on the internet before, you have kids, 2 and 2 equals 4. Like.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah. And part of that whole like Wren situation, the mom basically came out and said, like, I've been in contact with the FBI to see if my, my daughter's content has appeared on any like inappropriate sites and she's like, and it hasn't been so it's fine, but I feel like when you have to call that into question, like, if you feel like you need to get in touch with the FBI about that, perhaps that might be a red flag to maybe switch up what you're doing, even if they're not like appearing on other like sites. It's still on TikTok like don't have to go to other sites if they're just going to go to your TikTok.

Anna Dobbert: You're already making the content, people don't need to manipulate it to like, make it into something it's not. Like, it's already there.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah, the number of saves, like at what point do you seriously look at that number being the highest number on there? Higher than the likes, higher than the comments. At what point do you not go, why would people want to save this video for the future? How many, how many innocent moms out there are going like, oh, I got to show this to Debbie down the street tonight. how, how do you, I don't know, I don't know how you have that lapse of judgment of being like, ooh, that's kind of concerning.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah, I think the other thing that people don't maybe realize yet about social media today. Like, social media, ten, even five years ago, it's like, we had Facebook, we had Instagram, and when you shared pictures of your kids, it was just your friend seeing it, right? Like, my grandma posts Facebook updates about us all the time, and that's great, because the people that see it are her friends. I feel like people still kind of have that antiquated view of like about uploading their kids like, oh, this is innocent. And like, it's the same as it was 10 years ago, but the reality is it's not because pretty much anyone can see what you're posting. And then, as you said earlier, there's that monetizing piece where people are now making money off of content of their kids. So I just think we need to keep that in mind. Um, even if you are like, I know that there are very wholesome, very innocent families on TikTok on all social media platforms who just like, post cute videos of their kid for, for no other reason than like to be innocent. But I do think you still need to be careful. I just think that we, this piece, this extra piece hasn't quite clicked with people yet, but it needs to. Cause it's the reality.

Anna Dobbert: Well, yeah, and I think what you're talking about of like the antiquated way of thinking about social media like I think previous generations or even like, like millennials of right now are being like we were the like generation that grew up with the internet. We were the guinea pigs like you and I both grew up with social media. But we didn't grow up with the algorithm. We grew up with the social media that was like, seven people saw this and they'll see me in homeroom tomorrow too. And there wasn't this same sort of like, this is going out to the entire world. When virality was still scarce. Like there was a very, very low chance, at all times that strangers would be seeing it.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah.

Anna Dobbert: Maybe not very, very low chance at all times, but lower than it is right now. Because now if you're like a teenager or a very, very young person and you're posting content, there's a significantly higher chance that it's going to get hundreds and thousands of people seeing it. And then that just opens a door being like, the precedent we had set is, okay, yes, be mindful of your social media use, but the way we were kind of all taught about it was like, it's for your friends, and like, your friends might remember it forever, and like, the internet is forever, whereas now like, you could post something today with your 16 year old undeveloped brain not thinking it all the way through, and it could end up on the For You Page of like, everyone. And you don't have as much control over that.

Ella Gunnell: No, I wonder. Okay. So when I was growing up, I wonder if you'll even remember this. I'm thinking of like Snapchat specifically, it was like basically an extension of your phone number. So like, if you wanted someone's Snapchat, you had to go and ask them for their Snapchat.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah.

Ella Gunnell: It was like basically exchanging a phone number. So the only people that I had on Snapchat were people who I basically had their phone numbers. So you basically have that version of Snapchat, same thing with Instagram, right? Like. You had to go and ask your friend for their Instagram, and then you would follow each other and see each other's content. There was no, like, reel page where you could just swipe through endless reels of random people you've never seen before. Like, that's all it was. And social media is just such a far call from that, from what it used to be.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah, well because it feels like when it was at its bare bones, like I feel like we had a bare bone social media. Where literally like a blank page you could write on. And I feel like that's somehow or sometimes how people still talk about social media as if it's like this canvas, anything could happen. So obviously crazy things happen. When in fact it is now much more of like a machine that has inputs and outputs and functions and a very strong tendency to like algorithms go towards what's popular. And sometimes the things that are popular are things that should not be promoted, things that are inappropriate, things that are dangerous because. Like, the internet's inherently voyeuristic. It can go in that direction. So when you're a teenager, or a mom wanting to post their kid, you're not just putting it on a blank canvas and saying, hello world, like, this is my cute little thing. You're actually putting it up against the backdrop of being like, you're feeding it into a machine. That's going to point it in whatever direction it wants to point it, not you.

Ella Gunnell: It's going to give it to who wants to see it, whether they want to see it for purely innocent reasons or not.

Anna Dobbert: And that’s, oh, that's so freaky. I don't, I, I think about that all the time being like, if I had a child, I think the last thing on my mind would be like, I'm going to make content about this, like the world needs to see like what me and my children, like how we got dressed this morning and the, and the food we ate. And I think that there's actually really creative and interesting ways to make content about your children without featuring them in it. I see a woman on TikTok who just shows like what she feeds her kids and like how much they ate after. And they're like never in those videos. It's literally like the plates and then them like running around for a second. And there's like creative and interesting ways to go about that. And like, people don't need to see, your children all the time. Like I love children. I was a preschool teacher. I love being around children. Children are some of my favorite class of humans in this world. I don't need to watch videos of them all day long.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah.

Anna Dobbert: If anyone does, we should be concerned.

Ella Gunnell: That would be too much.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah. That's just, it's just weird. It just, ehh.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah it makes me think of, well, two things. One, you'll see a lot of times like celebrities will shield their children from like paparazzi and things like that. And, um, I think that maybe sometimes, people might think that that is crazy or like a little bit far fetched, but like, it's totally understandable, especially with how things are going and then, um, we actually have someone on our team. Shout out to Laney. But she, um, has a TikTok that she's pretty active on, and she will, like, admit, like, she's never gonna show her kids on social media. And again, some people might think that that's a little, like, weird, or cuckoo, or, like, too overprotective, but if you, when you truly understand social media, um, which Laney does, like, obviously she knows what she's talking about. There's a reason she's shielding her kids from this.

Anna Dobbert: I think that's also, I think, I feel like you hear the term like media literacy thrown around on social media so often, but I think if the general public much more understood the capabilities of technology nowadays. They'd be much more hesitant to have like, any photo or video of them online and especially of their children, like knowing what people can do with photos and images, and even like the words you say, like it can get into shady territory way faster than you, a non suspecting person would think, but when you start to like understand that and understand the world of technology we're operating in, it's like, yeah, no, my children do not need to be here in this plane of existence.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah, it reminds me, this is a little bit off topic, but, um, I listen to True Crime a lot, and as, like, the internet was coming out and people were getting personal computers, and they were Googling stuff, like, how to kill your wife. Or, like, they would, like, Google something, and then, in their search history, but then delete it. And then they were shocked when they got arrested, because they found out that the police could actually see their search history.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah.

Ella Gunnell: We're, we're in that stage right now. But with social media where it's like, there's, there's a lot, there's a lot that most people don't understand. And I think they would be shocked to find out.

Anna Dobbert: And I also feel like the reverse could be true of like I feel like teenagers and like very young, like preteen also may not understand that adults now know about social media. Like when we were teenagers, we could probably take a fair estimate that our parents knew less about what was going on on the internet than we did. And therefore could sort of get around things.

And I don't think that, the generation right now has sort of that same grasp of being like, we do know what's going on on these websites. Like we, we did grow up around it. And so if you post something like this, like parents know how to locate that stuff, they know how to find secret apps on your phone, they know how to do these certain things. And that's, I feel like it could totally just be flipped in the reverse of being like, you might not think that the adults in your life could figure out what you're doing, but I almost could guarantee you that they can.

Ella Gunnell: Right. Exactly. And that kind of leads into the, the second part that we wanted to talk about with this. And that is just like, okay, so maybe your kid, you're not featuring your kid on social media, but odds are your kid probably has access to social media, they're probably on it. They probably have a phone. If they don't have a phone, they probably still have a way to get on it.

So what are some of kind of like the rules and guidelines that, we as social media managers might recommend or that we would have for our own kids.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah, I mean, I feel like mine changes all the time as I learn and discover more. I, I think my biggest thing that I would iterate to my children about the use of social media would just be to downplay its severity as much as possible. I think the only, like, the biggest rules would be, like, all the accounts need to be private, like, until you're 18. There is no reason that strangers need to be seeing the stuff you're posting. If like your argument to me is that you want this cause your friends are all on it and we're doing that totally chill and fine, keep it locked down into that space. And I, then I think sort of secondly, like I would just really try to work to establish a rhetoric of being like, you don't need to be super famous and super like internet popular. Like that's not necessarily the coolest thing in the world to do. It can be, but it isn't the end all be all, and sort of just like downplay its importance and value, which is funny because I make my money in social media, but for children, I'm, I would really, really emphasize like, oh, like, yeah, social media is there. Like, it can be fun, but it's not, it's not like the biggest deal in the world. There's so many more, go look at tree. There's so many more important things we could be looking at and spending our time doing.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah. Totally. We're, we're constantly telling our clients like preaching the importance of social media, but like, really, when it comes down to the, the core, I think we need kids to understand, like, your value and your worth is not tied to social media. And like, it's not at the end of the day, it's not real life. Like I know that it kind of seems like it. And a lot of people are like putting their whole lives on social media, but it's not real life. And those are very filtered versions of what they want you to see about their lives. So not to say that, like, if your child wants to try to make, maybe not as a child, but their goal is to someday, yeah, if their goal is to someday, like maybe be an influencer or try to make some money on the side with Instagram or social media, like that's, you know, that's not something that I would recommend against, but just like as a kid, just sort of teaching them that it's not real because I feel like kids are just so it's like an extension of their lives. Like, okay. For example, um, when I was a kid, none of us barely had phones. Like when I was a teenager and like 13, if you had a phone, I'm 25 for reference. Um, it was one of those little like type-y clicky phones. There was no like access to the internet on your phones. Um, some people were getting iPod touches, but like.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah.

Ella Gunnell: If you came to school, and you had conversations with your friends, and then, like, maybe you would text them sometimes if you had enough texts left for the month. Um, but what I've seen for some of my siblings even, I have a sibling who's 13 years old right now, and, a lot of stuff goes on, on text that doesn't happen in person. Like, they'll be fine and dandy and everything's fine in school, and then, all of a sudden, there's this blow up in the group chat. And there's like, drama. And it's like, if you guys did not have phones and did not have a group text, this wouldn't be happening. Like, I don't, I don't know how to get that through their heads. Like, this is not real. This is just being fabricated. Because you have these phones, you know what I'm saying?

Anna Dobbert: Yeah. Well, it's like there there was this uh, like Onion news article like thing that me and my friends always send to each other and it says we should all know less about each other. And we send to each other constantly If someone like over shares or things just get too complicated because we are just texting each other every two seconds. It's like we should all know less about each other. We'll be able to avoid this and it makes me think. Bo Burnham made, I can't remember if it was in his movie Inside, or if it was in some other interview, cause he has a lot of thoughts about the digital world and childhood. And he has this quote about how children are, or he's satirically speaks about how children view, uh, the real world as a stage to build content upon for the much more real, a much more livable digital world. And that quote like sticks with me all the time of being like, as we make our world and our society around us less accessible for teenagers to use and to be in. Of course, they're going to want to go make a little dance TikTok, like the mall, the Opry Mills mall here in Nashville, banned groups of teenagers from going without a parent supervisor. And I'm like, I'm sure that they were having problems. I'm sure that groups of teenagers were going there and it was causing problems. And so they thought that this was the solution, but I'm like, if I was a teenager. And I couldn't even go to the mall. What would we do? Like what, what other option would there even be? But to then like, okay, we could sit here and we could be on our phones. Like we wouldn't get in trouble for that. Nothing could stop this from going on. And I think it's, I think not only the capabilities of social media expanding adds to this sort of heightened intensity for teenagers to use it. But simultaneously, like if you start to look at the world around you and be like, okay, what are the options for teenagers? I don't see teenagers riding around on their bikes. Like, I don't really see the same sort of freedom and accessibility, the real world was for teenagers. And so I can't really blame them for like wanting to go get TikTok famous.

Ella Gunnell: It's so true. And, and it's hard too, because like, like you were saying, like, it just makes me think of like Stranger Things or something like that, where those kids are like in the eighties, just always riding around on their bikes. Um, maybe some areas you can still do that, but like the world is different now, and I don't know if I'd feel comfortable just like sending my kid down the street on their bike to hang out for the whole evening and have no way to get in touch with them.

Anna Dobbert: Same.

Ella Gunnell: I totally get what you're saying and, like, kids are given laptops from, like, 1st grade, like, given laptops integrated, even if they have, like, blocks and they're not allowed on certain stuff, like, it is integrated into their DNA at this point, it's just part of me wishes and it's hard because I love social media, like I'm a social media manager, but even like for myself as an adult, social media is designed and made to keep you there. It's designed to be addicting like straight up. And I can barely resist that, as an adult. So, how can we expect kids, like, if they're given an option between scroll on your phone for a few hours, or go outside for a few hours. They're probably going to pick the latter. And so I feel like, or sorry, they're going to pick the former. Um, and so I kind of feel like it's our jobs as like the adults in their lives to help them like make good decisions and also lead by example. Like if you're on your phone all the time, why would your kid also not want to be on their phone all the time?

Anna Dobbert: Yeah. And also just like making interesting options. Like, I feel like I even struggle with that as an adult, like, sitting around my, like sitting around my house. It's like nighttime can't really go anywhere or do anything.

And it's like sometimes I'll beat myself up for being on my phone and I'll look around and I'll be like, literally, what else is there to do that doesn't feel like work, you know, that isn't cleaning house, or journaling or writing or like having to think like, what is, what is else around besides my phone. And I think that that's important to look for, for us as adults, but us as adults have a lot of freedom. If I really wanted to, I'd get in the car and I could go somewhere and do something. Teenagers don't have that same sort of freedom because it's not safe for them to have that sort of freedom yet. Like they have the same, you know, the decision making capabilities to like, be able to do that rationally. And so it's hard to be like, what kind of option could we, what kind of alternative could you even give them to social media? Like social media is it. It's like everything. It's the social addictive, it's the chemical addictive of like bright shiny colors, dopamine hit. Like what, what could you even make? That could compare to that without a full, like, I don't know. I literally think the only solution with that would be like very harsh regulations of being like, teenagers just aren't allowed. We just decided it's not safe and it's not allowed.

Ella Gunnell: I honestly. I don't know if that ever would happen in America, but.

Anna Dobbert: It certainly wouldn't.

Ella Gunnell: I could see that happening elsewhere because there are a lot of studies. That have come out basically showing like how detrimental, especially like in your formative years, like when you're a toddler, there's like strong correlation between like how much screen time you get and like your brain development, essentially, like how easy you're able to, like, learn stuff, your attention span, all the things to be like a thriving adult are kind of hindered if you are having like hours and hours of screen time every day. Which is terrible. And so it wouldn't shock me if in the near future, it, I think it at least needs to become more of a conversation because it’s so easy. Um, for everyone listening at home, we don't have kids yet, but I, I am due with my first in January. Um, and of course, right now I'm like all gung ho. I'm like, this kid's not having any screen time. I am never handing it my phone. But how easy is it if your child is throwing a fit to just hand them the iPad, hand them the phone, and, like, it's easier for you, it's easier for the kid, but then at the same time, you're teaching them that that's, like, the coping mechanism. Like, when you're bored or feeling strong feelings, you just kind of shut your brain off and turn to your phone.

Anna Dobbert: Well, yeah, I mean, like, I feel like I always heard that red meat was going to be the new cigarettes and that we'd all look back at giving our children red meat and like how bad that would be. And I really do think it's going to be screen time and social media use, that in 20 years it's going to be like. Oh my gosh, they were like letting children spend all day long like staring at a screen like yeah no wonder they were dying at 40 or something crazy like that. Like we're gonna see such adverse effects because we already are.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah.

Anna Dobbert: That I think it's going to be looked like this time period is going to be looked back on and being like oh my gosh, like you guys were allowed to do that. Like that was even an option. The same way we look back at parents who would like, just chain smoke in their car with the windows up, three kids in the back, and think it was no problem.

Ella Gunnell: No seatbelts.

Anna Dobbert: No seatbelts. Think was absolutely no problem. Because like, why would they? They didn't have, we didn't have the regulations and the general public didn't have that information yet.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah. And it's so funny, too, because even thinking back, like, to my own childhood, I feel like you and I were the generation where we really, like, we got introduced to stuff. Like. I had VHS tapes growing up. I have tape recordings of my voice growing up. There's no video footage of me. And yet I still had access to social media when I was a teenager. And it's so interesting because my parents are, um, stricter now with my siblings than they were with me. And that's not because my parents were basically stricter with me with everything else. Okay. I was the first child. I was the guinea pig. They were very, very strict with me, but when it came to the internet and social media, they just didn't know yet and like, they didn't know that you can just hop on and like, talk to someone or like, they, they just thought and social media was originally, like I said earlier, like, just an extension of, like, chatting with your friends.

Anna Dobbert: Mhmm.

Ella Gunnell: But it started to change. And my parents, I don't, I think, didn't realize that yet. So there was a point in time, like, when I first got my iPod touch, my little one, you know, when they had like the mirrored back and they were like really fat and I had like zero restrictions around it, it was allowed to be in my room. They never like took it from me or checked it or blah, blah, blah, blah. Not that I was doing anything bad, but like they just didn't really even think to that. No, it didn't come up. And then by the time that I was leaving high school, so I was probably like 17 and I had an iPhone. They were actually stricter then and I had to like, not have my phone in my room past a certain time. They would monitor, like, screen time. So, like, I couldn't have a certain amount of screen time every day. So, it's just so interesting. Like, I feel like we're in such, we were in such a weird little bubble of time. Um, and now like things are even way different.

Anna Dobbert: And like even to see if in five years like this conversation we're having right now even becomes dated and irrelevant. At the speed in which things are changing especially with AI like AI has taken, reared its ugly head in the past like year-ish way more significantly than it ever has. So it'll be fascinating if like in genuinely five years time we'll look back and be like, we had no idea what was coming. We had not a clue what was coming down the pipeline and how would change things even more.

Ella Gunnell: Literally. Do you, I don't know if this just blew me away or what, but I was doing like a blog post or something. And I had to remember and think back. I was like, when did Instagram reels become a thing? Do you have a guess? Do you know?

Anna Dobbert: I remember when it was IGTV and I want to say it was like 2018 or 2017.

Ella Gunnell: It was 2020.

Anna Dobbert: When it was reels?

Ella Gunnell: When Instagram reels first came out. That was only four years ago. And don't you feel like, reels are like everything, like they are absolutely everything on Instagram, but they only came out four years ago.

Anna Dobbert: Four years ago. Yeah. I mean, I think I got TikTok in 2019. Like I think it's all, wow, that's actually a crazy number.

Ella Gunnell: I know.

Anna Dobbert: Cause the IGTV thing never made sense to me.

Ella Gunnell: No, you kind of feel like they've always been there.

Anna Dobbert: Now, like imagining Instagram without them, like it feels kind of incomplete.

Ella Gunnell: Exactly. I'm like, what did we do before then?

Anna Dobbert: It's funny though, I, I do not watch Instagram reels. Like sometimes people will send me reels all the time. I don't even, sorry to my friends who might be watching this. I don't even watch the ones people send me. I just hit the little like button. Cause I'm like, I don't know what's going on on this website. Like, okay, cheers. Like have fun.

Ella Gunnell: I'll stick to TikTok.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah.

Ella Gunnell: But yeah, so that was even just like four years ago. I can't, I can't imagine how things are going to change. I mean, things change so much for us as social media managers, even like we're constantly having to shift how we do things. And I would say every couple of months.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah.

Ella Gunnell: The most recent thing was Instagram is rolling out their change where they're not having the square grid anymore. They're having the portrait grid. And so we're having to change all of the graphics that we make for our clients. And it's like, that's just something small.

Anna Dobbert: Yeah.

Ella Gunnell: There's stuff like that happening all the time.

Anna Dobbert: And when you think about. Like to bring it back to like teenage and kid childhood, like social media use. Think about if you're a kid and social media is like your entire world. This is how you and all of your friends connect. Like it is such a fallible space. Like it can go either way. These features can be there one day, be gone the next day. TikTok could be banned in a year. And to think of putting so much importance and so much value in this thing that literally could crumble away at any minute. Also, it doesn't seem like a good parenting strategy of being like, social media might be really cool and fun. It could leave tomorrow. Like, it's not, it may not always be there. It may not always be there in this way that we're comfortable with you using it. All these different, like if it, it's going to change and change again. So how do you even set up, you can't really set up hard boundaries with it because it's like these have be open to change at any given point. And that's really hard for a teenager to understand of being like this is the rule right now. And at literally any given notice, I might need to change this for your wellbeing. When you're 16, you'd be like, well, guess I'll go jump off this bridge over there. Like that would just be so confusing. Yeah. My life is literally over. Thanks Dad. Like there's no way to like, rationally communicate and being like, we don't even know what this thing is, half the time.

Ella Gunnell: I think the sooner that you can get that across, like this is going to be an open discussion from now until forever. Depending on like, things might change, and so what works for us might change. And that's just a con that's just like a conversation I'm gonna have to have with my kid from like, day one. Like, straight out the womb. Like, like, this is this is what it’s going to be and.

Anna Dobbert: The first Strella baby, and you're like I need you to know we're going to have to have a big talk about social media in a couple of years, buddy. Like.

Ella Gunnell: No, literally. I don't I mean, it's it's just crazy. Well, what, what like final parting words of wisdom would you want to leave for people when it comes to kids and social media?

Anna Dobbert: I think the biggest part about all of it would be what you talked about earlier about consent of being like your children cannot necessarily consent. In a sane and logical mind until a certain age period. And so if you're the one choosing to put them on the internet, you are kind of taking away that ability. And simultaneously, when they do feel like they are old enough to make that decision for themselves, you do still have to probably step in and make ground rules of being like, this might seem, this usage of social media might seem like a really good idea right now, but we do still have to have ground work and rules and boundaries surrounding it.

Ella Gunnell: Yeah, that's really good. I think, for me, um, I would want parents to know, number one, if you put your child on the internet, you're not a bad parent, right? Like, there's no mom shaming here. If you, if you want to do that, that's your prerogative. Um, I just, I just kind of want to leave that same word of caution and, like, just recognizing that when you put this out, you're putting it out for the world to see, not just your friends. So just always keep that in mind. Um, for any people who like monetize their content, um, there's, I mean, mom influencers, MomTok, let's not open that can of worms, but there are people that make their living essentially off of being moms. And so again, I would just say, make sure you're making your money off of yourself and like what you bring to the table rather than just like having it be all about your kid. Because at the end of the day, it's not their social media. It's yours. And so they just are not old enough to consent to that yet. And then to any parents who maybe your child is not on social media, like, you're not making money off them. You're not posting them, but they still have access. I just think that it's really important to have open dialogue. And that's so hard, especially when you have like, teenagers and like, they just don't want to talk to you about anything. But just like making it something that's not taboo, there's open conversations about it, um, something that you're also open about, just so that way, like, like we were saying earlier, it has to be that ongoing dialogue because they can't just be a one and done rule. The social media is going to change and so your relationship with social media also has to change.

Anna Dobbert: Well, thank you guys for tuning into Untamed Social Podcast and we'll see you guys next time.

Ella Gunnell: Bye!